The package of freedoms that include democracy, freedom of speech, and the relative separation of church and state. As a subset, even gay rights and women's rights and minority rights are more protected here than elsewhere.
In short, a fairly open society without heavy culturist overlording like in China or Saudi Arabia or tight community restrictions in tribal areas.
If that is "liberalism," what is "conservatism"? And what should we call collectivist, centralization of power commonly understood in the US as "liberalism"? Not just asking random questions, I think it is important to define these words.
I think John's definition of liberalism, is very similar to classical liberalism, if you know what that is. Its not like the modern definition that most people think of today.
Is "liberalism" as it is commonly used, then, a term for "classical liberalism" pursued further? Or not? If not, then we have three choices, not merely two: modern liberalism, classical liberalism, and conservatism. It does not make much sense to me for there to exist three fundamental political ideologies. One philosophy should represent truth. Another, falsehood. One may go astray in many directions; however, we should still be able to find only two fundamentally opposed philosophies. If we deem classical liberalism to be one, then we have to group pre-Enlightenment "conservatism" and "liberalism" in the same fundamental category. I think this is false, and it suggests that "classical liberalism" is not fundamentally distinct (at its most basic premise) from "modern liberalism."
Classical Liberalism, is not really like most people think of liberalism today. Many classical liberals don't even like FDR. Its actually a lot more like libertarianism, than the liberalism that people like Rush Limbaugh criticize.
Here's a good article on Classical Liberalism. Although modern Liberalism does owe a debt to classical liberalism it is different in many ways. Don't know if John would call himself a classical liberal or not, or if he would see himself as being closer to a modern one. The biggest difference is the view of the two groups have of economic liberty and the role the state should play in the economy.
I maybe should have said that its not exactly like modern liberalism, but there are some pretty big differences.
I would argue that many people who call themselves liberals today, really are not very liberal at all, especially when it comes to opposing views, lets put it at that.
Sorry I can't go into a history lesson right now, but in many ways what call left and right did a pole shift. Lets put it that way. I'm really sorry I can't go into more detail on the subject right now.
I wrote a long post on this topic to Anonymous. It has not appeared. Basically, I agree with you 100%.
Classical liberalism rose in opposition to monarchical control. It is found in the writings of Adam Smith.
Yes, his work is now what we'd call conservative. In fact, he created Laissez Faire and the Invisible Hand as aspirations.
But where you wish there only to be a duality, there are other historic nuances as well. The version of classical liberalism I would recommend is tinted by the conservativism of Edmund Burke. He wrote against the Enlightenment based, French Revolution while it was underway.
I believe that you can only have a free and open society when certain propriety and understandings of responsibility are acknowledged. A respect for tradition is a big part of this formulation.
But in this video, I am saying what Damien is saying. Classical liberalism, not having government interfere, tolerance for individual diversity, rights, are western constructs that culturism protects.
I might not know as much about the subject as you do, but I knew it was complex and confusing and that's part of the reason why decided not to go into detail. Its also the reason I ended up giving a confusing answer.
And how about adding some more images? I’m not trying to offend anyone, site is really nice. Just as I’ve heard humans acquire information much more effective when they see some useful images.
What do you think concerning adding some more pictures? I don’t want to offend anyone, text is really great. Just as I know visitors acquire information much more effective when they see some useful images.
Pretty cool place you've got here. Thanks the author for it. I like such topics and anything that is connected to them. I definitely want to read more soon.
22 comments:
What do you mean by "liberalism"?
The package of freedoms that include democracy, freedom of speech, and the relative separation of church and state. As a subset, even gay rights and women's rights and minority rights are more protected here than elsewhere.
In short, a fairly open society without heavy culturist overlording like in China or Saudi Arabia or tight community restrictions in tribal areas.
What thinks ye of my definition?
If that is "liberalism," what is "conservatism"? And what should we call collectivist, centralization of power commonly understood in the US as "liberalism"? Not just asking random questions, I think it is important to define these words.
Anonymous,
I think John's definition of liberalism, is very similar to classical liberalism, if you know what that is. Its not like the modern definition that most people think of today.
Is "liberalism" as it is commonly used, then, a term for "classical liberalism" pursued further? Or not? If not, then we have three choices, not merely two: modern liberalism, classical liberalism, and conservatism. It does not make much sense to me for there to exist three fundamental political ideologies. One philosophy should represent truth. Another, falsehood. One may go astray in many directions; however, we should still be able to find only two fundamentally opposed philosophies. If we deem classical liberalism to be one, then we have to group pre-Enlightenment "conservatism" and "liberalism" in the same fundamental category. I think this is false, and it suggests that "classical liberalism" is not fundamentally distinct (at its most basic premise) from "modern liberalism."
Anonymous,
Classical Liberalism, is not really like most people think of liberalism today. Many classical liberals don't even like FDR. Its actually a lot more like libertarianism, than the liberalism that people like Rush Limbaugh criticize.
Here's a good article on Classical Liberalism. Although modern Liberalism does owe a debt to classical liberalism it is different in many ways. Don't know if John would call himself a classical liberal or not, or if he would see himself as being closer to a modern one. The biggest difference is the view of the two groups have of economic liberty and the role the state should play in the economy.
I maybe should have said that its not exactly like modern liberalism, but there are some pretty big differences.
Anonymous,
I would argue that many people who call themselves liberals today, really are not very liberal at all, especially when it comes to opposing views, lets put it at that.
If these things are various forms or are labelled as liberalism, what is conservatism? What did people believe before any of this?
Anonymous,
Sorry I can't go into a history lesson right now, but in many ways what call left and right did a pole shift. Lets put it that way. I'm really sorry I can't go into more detail on the subject right now.
Damien,
I wrote a long post on this topic to Anonymous. It has not appeared. Basically, I agree with you 100%.
Classical liberalism rose in opposition to monarchical control. It is found in the writings of Adam Smith.
Yes, his work is now what we'd call conservative. In fact, he created Laissez Faire and the Invisible Hand as aspirations.
But where you wish there only to be a duality, there are other historic nuances as well. The version of classical liberalism I would recommend is tinted by the conservativism of Edmund Burke. He wrote against the Enlightenment based, French Revolution while it was underway.
I believe that you can only have a free and open society when certain propriety and understandings of responsibility are acknowledged. A respect for tradition is a big part of this formulation.
But in this video, I am saying what Damien is saying. Classical liberalism, not having government interfere, tolerance for individual diversity, rights, are western constructs that culturism protects.
Thanks, and I hope this comment prints,
John
Culturist John,
I might not know as much about the subject as you do, but I knew it was complex and confusing and that's part of the reason why decided not to go into detail. Its also the reason I ended up giving a confusing answer.
As goes the United States, succeed or fail, so will go the rest of the world.
Other countries around the globe seek our downfall to the detriment of themselves and, mostly, to rational societies.
Simple as that.
BZ
Culturist John,
I'm still waiting for that latest post of yours to appear. Maybe you weren't able to upload it properly.
And how about adding some more images? I’m not trying to offend anyone, site is really nice. Just as I’ve heard humans acquire information much more effective when they see some useful images.
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What do you think concerning adding some more pictures? I don’t want to offend anyone, text is really great. Just as I know visitors acquire information much more effective when they see some useful images.
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